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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:45:00 -
[1]
Tuxford said in a blog once  Quote:
"In my opinion there is not much wrong with dedicated ECM ships. They are very powerful and can lockdown multiple opponents but they are very vulnerable Anyone that has failed a jam in one of these ships knows how fast they go down"
Fair enough you sacrifice tank for jammers but when a dedicated ECM ship in new kali cant even jam a Vaga (strenght 14) with 6 multi specs and all its lows full of signal amps (hypnos) and battleship 5 makes me wonder..
Tuxford said the problem was tanking and jamming together which is fair enough but instead you made jammers weak even on the ship thats specialiszed in it and taken there tank away meaning a failed jam will happen and you die. the scorpion has little damge output anyways and now has the same bonuses as a Cruiser (blackbird) whats that about?
Its supposted to be Quote:
the Scorpion is crammed to the brink with sophisticated hi-tech equipment that few can match.
but in reality it has no DPS and at this point it cant even jam a Cruiser with 6 multis or tank :P ... ???
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 02/12/2006 23:19:17
Quote:
the point is you should be able to lock ppl down, but you should need to use multiple jammers if you want them locked down full time. you should also have to use some racial, not jsut multi's especially if your target runs eccm.
yeah should be able to lock down multi targets with multi jammers but when 6 multis cant even jam 1 Crusier how many do you think a scorp can fit ? Quote:
they cornered ecm to the specialized ships
yeah which suck at jamming now even with racials its like giving the raven all the luacher points it has and bonuses but giving it bonuses for guns not missiles ,, dont make sense.
Quote:
fit some more ecm mods, use some lows to boost their effectiveness and dont ever be suprised when your one ECM-multi II fails to keep a thron or whatever jammed forever. no more one cruiser locking down 3-4 targets at a time, thats just silly
4 hypnos in the low slots is what was fitted ! 20% per module ..
And when any ships packing ECCM god help any jammer out there because if it cant jam a Target of strenght of 14 with out ECCM then god help it when they have it
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:47:00 -
[3]
Quote:
so you missed ONE jam cycle and think that jamming is now useless
1 jam cycle lol try reading if im useing 6 jammers m8 thats 6 cycles im missing ,, over and over not just 1 i wouldnt complain if it was just 1 .. but if 6 cant even get a cycle on a crusier with maxed out jamming skills whats the chances of anything bigger or multi targets ?
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:12:00 -
[4]
whos amarr ? was that aimed at me ?
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 03/12/2006 01:59:53
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 03/12/2006 01:59:14
I agree it needs a boost to its ECM so its jammers are as effective. with no tank and good jammers it would be balanced but with both no tank and weak it makes the jamming ships weak as good as dead
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 04:12:00 -
[6]
At the min the scorp has exactly the same bonus as its elite cruiser counter part i think ccp didnt really think about the bonuses too well for example a falcon takes you 104 days to train to fly (give or take) with no skills and that doesnt count the jamming skills and it takes you 2 days to fly the black bird and they have the same strenght bonus WTFs that about?
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 05:07:00 -
[7]
Scorps were overpowered in RMR and before but tanking its ability to tank in lows should of sorted that but instead it cant tank and has P**s weak jammers meaning at somepoint your are going to fail especially how fights are now goign to last longer because of increased HP! Even with max skills and racials.
Tonight ive tested it alot with hypnos singal amps in the in lows and racials ..the scorp hasnt a chance against a damn BC .. its weak DPS isnt enough to kill anything .. (as long as the BC tanks long enough which is easy now with increase HP)and the drones alone are enought to kill the scorp and thats a scorp with BS 5 and maxed out jammer Skills against my 700k sp in drones .. and you dont see this being wrong ?
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 05:46:00 -
[8]
Quote:
. its probably better using sensor dampners on ravens and scorps instead of using ecm.
Then whats the point of ECM dedicated ships then ? if your just putting damps on? you may as well buy an a arazu or lachesis!
Quote:
what was the bc.
Brutix and ferox (tryed both at sep times)
Quote:
did the bc have eccm?
No
and i would have to look up strenghts
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 17:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 03/12/2006 17:07:08
Thing is the people that ae going "stop whining" are the ones that only know bout jamming from being jammed but if you actually fly the ships.
you would see at this point there is something wrong with the system, ECM ships are supposted to be ECM platforms and are supposted to be support ships but think about it this way,
fleet fight first thing usally targeted is a scorp/rook/falcon... so on ... just because of its jamming potental no matter how many jammers you have if you have multiple Bs firing on you are as good as dead, was same pre kail but before if you were called primary you at least had a slight chance of jamming enough to take the initial hits, but now you have to slam most ur jammers on 1 target to semi jam him meaning if your called primary your DEAD simple as ... so whats the point ? they made it a support ship that cant support a fleet correctly
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 17:52:00 -
[10]
Quote:
extra lowslot so it can properly take advantage of the new ECM damage mods
Problem is after 4 modules the stacking pens start kicking in and more mods effects aint noticeable, thanks for trying tho , at least some people care about where eve is going and not just going "whine whine whine "
Liek someone said in another post i read the game isnt baout skill or tactics its about who has the biggest guns and the best Tank, brute force over tactics and skill,
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 23:01:00 -
[11]
ALso for thos who are goign nothings wrong with them ... go read the other forums too exactly the same issues ! Link 1
Link 2
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.03 23:50:00 -
[12]
you have seen a scorp in space right ? it has the DPS of a fish !!!
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:11:00 -
[13]
the nerf was too much ! Ecm ships are a total Joke now !Seriously CCP you need to rethink things just read the forums! if you dont see the problem then we are truly lost ! the ammount of people caldari and non caldari that see the problem !
As Tuxford said the problem was every one and there grand mother carrying ECM before kali not dedicated Ecm ships like the scorp! so why have ECM dedicated ships been nerfed ?
You try taking a scorp against any other teir one BS now and i garantee you the scorp loses before kali it had a fighting chance (with time cause of DPS)!
The only change that needed to be done was to make Ecm a ECM SHIP only thing just like a covert ops cloak on a covert ops ship! That would stop everyone packing ECM and those who know there facing scorps and suck have the choice to put ECCM on simple as !
Instead you've got a whole range of issues now that mount to the ecm problem, but something needs to be done !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 17:05:00 -
[14]
Quote:
ECM is the devil!!!
LOL CCP nerfed the devil too ? damn !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 18:25:00 -
[15]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 18:32:03
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 18:30:13
Quote:
If you have the skillz Jamming is still very affective in the right ships
Can you read it is clear you dont fly ecm ships and i appologize if you do ? Thats the thing i have maxed out my jamming skills level 5 in all and that includes cap skills and secondry skills for such ship like the rook ! i have recon 5 caldari battleship 5 and my scorpion with such skills cant jam a cruiser ! thats a BAttleship againt a crusier ! 5 mill again 60mill (give or take) and then you get to my rook ! recon 5 with officer and dread jammers cant jam a cruiser and keep it jammed ! the rook is the best of all the jamming ships ! and it should be able to jam pritty much anything it comes across just like the pilgrim or the cruse can nos out pritty much any BS it comes across !
Quote:
A scorp is cheap and if a scorp can shutdown a tempest it is taking away a lot of uber damage.
as for this Quote scorp is tier 1 domi is teir 1 same price on market around about and the scorp aint got a chance againt it ! hell the scorp as it stands aint got a chance againt a damn cruise thats set up right !
Quote:
Another point is in fleet battles CCP does not want a scorp to jam a bunch of ships but maybe if you had a 3-4 scorps setup for only 1 race you would get the james you need.
THen whats the pooint OF ECM ships ? I sure as hell wont be taking current ecm ships in to fleet engagments due to one fact " how can they support a fleet when at the min they cant support them selfs ? ECM ships played a great role in fleet combat and tactics and taking them away from that just turns them in to slug fest and it then comes to 2 things who has more friends and bigger guns ! simple as ! brute force over tactics ! which SUX !!! and if this is what is to become of eve then i will give great thought to quiting !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 19:17:00 -
[16]
Quote:
It's not dead ffs, its just a hell of alot more specialised!
seriously answer me one Question how can i get more specialised ? I HAVE MAXED OUT JAMMING SKILLS ! (BS 5, RECON 5, Signal dispersion 5,Fequency Modulation 5, EW,5 Faction and officer jammers ) only thing i dont have are rigs ! and ive tested them on the Test server ! and they dont improve S**T so how the hell can it be specialised if im top of the jamming tree ?
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 19:37:00 -
[17]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 19:41:13
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 19:39:30
you would think ! but its no where near where it was in RMR ! Even with RIGs ! ECM is too weak now ! even with recon 5 ! my rook cant even keep a ship with 14 signal strenght jammed ! 14 for god sake ! and its the best jammer in game !
welsh wizard do you use jamming ships your self ? because things on paper look nice but in practice it says other wise and just look at the ammount of other people thats behiind it too ? i mean if it was just me i would go far enough screw EW ill fly my other ships! ! BUT ITS NOT JUST MEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 21:53:00 -
[18]
Yep Ecm is now soooooo impressive sense the Sarcasm !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 22:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 22:50:49
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 22:48:39
Ok look at it this way to evem make Ecm even a little effective you need level 5 BS , level 5 signal disruption, the best named mods, and so on.. but every other BS is good at what it does with the lower levels,I fly both caldari and gal Bs so i know what both are like to fly i have gal only to BS 3 and 700k in drones and my domi would eat the scorp alive with out hesitating.. because the scorp sucks at whats its supposted to be good at even with max skills!! i mean pre kali ive killed domis with my scorp solo and i aagree with making it a support ship by taking the tank away ! but at least make it be able to jam good or what is the point because "failure = Fast death"
SO what your saying is train all the jamming and BS or recon to 5 to make it effective ? then the same should be done with all the rest ravens and domis should throw our P**s poor DPS till they max out missiles/drones and get level 5s in all !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 23:01:00 -
[20]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 23:01:13
Originally by: Aramendel
O-kay. Just in case I misunderstand you: you are complaining because your scropion cannot anymore solo kill a dominix, which
- is considered by many people as the best 1v1 BS in the game
- has the weaponsystem which is the least effected by ECM
NO im saying with maxed out skills and best mods and faction jammers it cant jam a crusier ! Like loc said try reading the whole of the forum not just the last few posts before replying !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 23:13:00 -
[21]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 04/12/2006 23:13:53
FFS try reading ! I do use low slots !FULL HYPNOS SIGNAL distortion amps !!! and 6 multi specs couldnt jam the cruiser ! before you go use racials i did also!
Iv also used Rigs on Test server! and its the same there with rigs !
Aramendel do you actually fly jamming ships out of intrest (if so what level skills ya got in BS/recon, signal distortion??
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.04 23:25:00 -
[22]
do you fly scorps ? or rooks ?
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.05 01:03:00 -
[23]
Sorry it just makes me angry when people that dont fly the ships start the lecture ! thats all and i agree ECM dedicated ships need help !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.05 01:22:00 -
[24]
yeah a vaga ! but only since kalis launch ! and i started the post to make sure it wasnt just me .. and 5 pages of other people with the same thing says its not just me
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.05 17:26:00 -
[25]
TO be honest the rook out of all ecm ships isnt as bad but that still couldnt jam a vaga ! which sucks so either osmething wrogn or the system/nerf is too much
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.06 04:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: HIdden Canary
TO be honest the rook out of all ecm ships isnt as bad but that still couldnt jam a vaga !
He'd just warp away, dude, and you still wouldn't get the kill.
Totally True but not the point !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.06 05:18:00 -
[27]
yep im sure tested it for a long time !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.06 23:40:00 -
[28]
The Nerf to is not working as it should be ! its weaken ships liek the scorp and rook and so on that are suffering from the nerf why have a bonus to the thing when a t1 cruiser can keep a raven jammed perm ? Ecm ships are usless as it stands ! they dont do what there bonus intends them too.Support ship that cant support them selfs !
The only way to fix ECm is to make it only ECM special ships just liek the covert ops cloak is to the covert ops ! or have a high risk putting them on a non ecm ship ! simple as !
i mean whats the point in buying a scorp with no DPS .. no TANK ,,, when you can just buy a domi and still use jammers from the sounds of it ?you have DPS and a insane tank and still jam ?
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:13:00 -
[29]
Ecm does need nerfing but not on ECM ships ! ECm ships need boosting or ECm needs to be made just for ECm ships simple as !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Personally I'd say that ECM as it is now needs to be removed completely. Sensor damps need to be split into two different modules: one for only reducing targeting range and another for only reducing targeting speed. To counter these ECCM should give a bonus to only targeting range and sensor boosters should only give a bonus to targeting speed.
ECM as it stands is overpowered regardless of its chance of hitting. Being taken out of a fight for 20 seconds is simply too powerful of an effect for 1 single module to be capable of. Change the effect, not the chance.
No offense and in the nicest possible way but you need tking out of the game in my opinion !
one thing i have to say is i agree the scorp needs a increase but as for the rook it seems ok as it is ! isnt overpowered or under to be honest its just the BS that needs a increase because its way below all the other BS in game ! and sucks !!!
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.07 18:15:00 -
[31]
narr hes prob busy working on new content instead of fixing the current issues lol ! new vids and so on !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.08 19:57:00 -
[32]
FOr the min i wouldnt bother till CCP listen !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.09 04:00:00 -
[33]
Speaking of Trolls !!
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.10 06:29:00 -
[34]
Just like everyones Ecm ships dude :P gathering rust !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.11 00:55:00 -
[35]
I agree ECm is either nerfed too far or Broke !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.12 06:30:00 -
[36]
Edited by: HIdden Canary on 12/12/2006 06:30:38
Quote:
ECM is a specialists work - you have to train rather hard for it to just use it in pvp.
Yeah i can say to you with maxed out skills and recon and BS 5 jamming still sucks you still cant jam !
I also would like to see what the devs say because as it stands there nerf just killed ECM dedicated ships ! a good % of caldari ships !
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.16 06:17:00 -
[37]
Quote:
But ECM? The ship can't target, at all, and nothing they do can stop that. Tacklers can come up and web the target and it is unable to lift a finger. If ECM works 100% of the time then the jammed target has NO options. So when a jam cycle fails, the first thing your target will do is shoot at the ECM boat because that is the ONLY thing they can do to counter ECM, kill the ECM user when they have a chance, if they get a chance. Or at least force the ECM user to warp out.
But nos on a Curse does the same on certain ships .. no cap means no shooting back, webbing or scrams ! and all thos who say ECM was overpowered try sitting in a ecm ship in a fleet engagement and see if you could jam all that lock you first before you die cause i assure you even before kali scorps died first real fast !! and now even faster because they cant jam to save there ass
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HIdden Canary
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Posted - 2006.12.17 19:40:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Nope, but its not the case either. Compare the usefullness and power of ECM to the power of tracking disrupters, dampeners, or (my god!) target painters. See the trend? Before Kali ECM was greatly overpowered compared to other types of EW - no question. Now ECM is just somewhat better in most cases. And dont tell us the tales about how ECM ships are useless. Answer just 1 question: what gang will win in fair fight: 3 megathrons + 1 Scorpion or 4 megathrons? I think the answer is pretty obvious for anyone with a clue.
The 4 megas would ... and it is clearly obvious you dont fly a scorp just from that post ! for one the scorp would be primary just because of what a crap ship it is now ! wouldnt take long to die ! and it cant jam 3 bs if it tryed ! damn mine with maxed out skills cant jam a vaga ! then its a case of more friends and whos got the more skill points !
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